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BANDS: Punk
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Interview:
GLEN PHILLIPS 8/17/02
For more than ten years, Glen Phillips was the lead singer/songwriter for Toad The Wet Sprocket. After they called it quits in 1997, he slowly began his inevitable solo career by releasing his debut solo album Abulum in 2001 and recording an as-yet unreleased album with Nickel Creek under the name Mutual Admiration Society. Before a recent show at Iota Club & Cafe in Arlington VA, I was lucky enough to sit down with Glen as he opened up about his feelings on the record industry, being solo versus being in a band, and why Nickel Creek is so damn cool... LOTD:
Ive
read interviews with you in the past, and one of things Ive never seen
touched on is the sort of music you were into as a kid and the music that made
you want to play growing up. Glen:
I dont know if I wanted to play music growing up, thats probably why
(laughs). My dad had lots of Benny Goodman albums, showtunes and stuff. That was
kind of about it for music around the house. My brother was really into the
Beatles, and I loved the Beatles and was a disco fanatic for a while and got
really into the 4AD stuff metal and then 4AD stuff. But I wanted to act. I
was a lot more into theatre. I always loved theatre, and as far as music went, it
was more of Id written a song here or a song there. I met the rest of the
band when I was a freshman in high school they were seniors and I got to
play in a band with seniors so that was really cool I was a freshman and was
like yeah Im not a geek anymore! so, I dont think I ever wanted
it wasnt really my career aspiration. Id been planning on doing theatre
and that was where I was going to go I wanted to be a theatre teacher or
something. I probably wasnt going to do the movie thing. My high school
teacher was a great theatre teacher; really sweet guy and he loved it, was a guy
who realized he probably wasnt bloodthirsty enough or talented enough make it
in the Hollywood scene and just wanted to teach. I was planning on doing that
too. I
was always writing something or wanting to do something creative that was
never a question but exactly what medium it would be was undecided until it
was happening. LOTD:
Since youve been solo for a few
years, what do you think the biggest difference is between now and when you were
with Toad? Glen:
Its
hard to know where to start. Musically, theres a lot of differences, I write
more for myself. Im having more fun than I was at the end of Toad
thats why we decided to stop. We were spending most of our energy trying not
argue instead of spending our energy trying to do something we were excited
about. Do you mean musically, or? LOTD:
Well,
the music is something Ill touch on later are you enjoying what youre
doing now more than you did the last few years with the band, or Glen:
Well, yes
and no. There are a lot of differences. Most people who do this for their living
make their decisions what Im gonna do for my life, they fight for it,
they have to fight for it for years and years before they get any recognition.
We did it in high school and then we were on tour when I was 18 and there was no
reason to believe that whatever I decided to do wouldnt just work my
personal experience had been that it always had. So Im now kind of paying my
dues retroactively. Its (I think) easier to pay them when your expectations
are lower. When youre just starting out its a great time to pay all your
dues you dont have this crushing feeling of loss and panic like you do
when youve had this successful career for a long time. Its been more
difficult. Toad was difficult internally how we related to each other and
how we communicated or more often didnt communicate that was where the
difficulty was with Toad. In choosing our battles, deciding what we were
passionate about and what we werent and sometimes making strange decisions in
those directions as well. So from those internal points of view, the creative
back and forth fighting that went on with that, its been a lot more mellow. On a personal level its been more peaceful, and on a
creative level its been really pleasing, getting to play with Nickel Creek,
and getting to go to LA and have David Garza sit in getting to play with
musicians that make me ecstatic. To be in the same room with them and see what
they add. Ive had more fun playing than Ive ever had before, and to be
able to get back that excitement I cant get it back every night, cause
Im usually by myself but when I play with other musicians, its
ecstatic, and thats what I miss is the ecstasy of it, and that has returned.
As far as career and fear and having to face myself and take care of the family
and all that, its been kind of a scary period. Theres a lot of in between,
the music industry is in such a state of flux, and Im going okay, am I an
Aimee-Mann-style cottage industry, and do I really start building this up, and
do I have to put all my eggs in that basket or is there a chance that Ill be
major-label again for the brief period of time that the major labels may still
exist, should I be there and having to choose and sitting between these 2
things and until the choices are made and it moves in one direction or another,
there'sits easy to let things go, and not exactly do nothing but
not really move forward. I havent toured enough in the last year; I havent
kept in touch with all the things Id started. It used to be we would just
make another record and then wed put it out and work now its not that
simple. Its if I start a record right now am I going to be forced to
re-record the entire thing, mix the entire thing, go back on it, not own it at
the end of the day? So, the things I can control Ive been having to
learn a lot about what I can control and what I cant and how to move
forward without shutting off other opportunities. Its interesting. Im
having to learn to think longer-term what the fall-out from any given
decision would be without stopping any given decisions. Theres been a lot
going on. The stuff I learn in this period of time is going to last for many
years to come. LOTD:
Well, now it seems music has always been
cyclical, but it seems now that people are jumping on the next big thing sooner
than they did in the past. Glen:
Well, you
cant force it the Strokes are really hyped; they had a really cool album,
so now anything like the Strokes you hear these deals, 4 million dollars,
just this crazy money for stuff thats really cool because its kind of like
the Strokes, and you gotta worry when youre getting the second generation of
stuff that already sounds kind of like something else that already sounds
like something that happened 20 or 30 years ago that didnt sell but was
really cool and a lot of people liked it, so to spend millions of dollars on the
bands that sound like this thing that may already be over or may just be that
thing that that band has that no other band has. Its odd, and it costs them
so muchI could talk at length about this stuff, but I dont know if you
want to hear it (laughs). The industry is such that, from paying for end-capping
in record stores to independent promotion and the cost of promotion to radio,
the cost of videos, the fact that MTV doesnt play music videos anymore, [the
industrys] risk and their expenses are higher than theyve ever been. So, Reprise can drop a band like Wilco and say even after
they sell 400,00 copies of their record on kind of an indie label, Reprise can
still say, great, thats fine, we couldnt make any money off that. To
think that a band could basically go gold and not make anybody money anymore is
really scary for everybody, record
companies included. It shows you how many people are picking everybody elses
pocket and how unfair the business has gotten they have to play only the game of multi-platinum. After they do their promo, theyre putting half a million
dollars into a successful single for whats essentially payola that doesnt
even guarantee radio play. Theyve asked the Senate to investigate de-facto
payola. The record companies, the RIAA they all got together and asked
the Senate to please investigate because theyre being put out of business by
what they have to spend on radio. The first round of payola stuff, they were
paying money, they were getting their songs played, fine, everybodys happy
its expensive, but at least the business was working. Now its gotten
so out of hand and so crazy that the industry is crying for intervention. Its
a very, very weird era. The individuals desire to have music doesnt change
at all. Its why Wilco still sells half a million copies people want great
music, thats why. Theres
Wilco, theres Alison Krauss, theres Gillian Welch, theres all these
bands that find their ways in through the cracks because people love what they
do. There was that three-day
festival down south; everybody knows the name but me [it was Bonaroo].
It was three days of bands that dont get played on any radio station
anywhere ever. They sold 100,000
tickets for $100 each. There are
100,000 people that want to see these bands who nobodys willing to sign,
nobodys willing to try to sell, nobodys willing to try to market them. And
the fact is that there are still hundreds of thousands of people who are desperate to
see anything they love. It becomes
incumbent somewhat on the artist and somewhat on the industry to find ways to
figure out how to get music out to people without going through these tiny,
narrow, high-risk channels. This is
more of a business discussion (laughs). LOTD:
Since you
mentioned it, I wanted to touch on MTV a bit.
I was checking the CMT web-site, to see when the new Nickel Creek video
was coming on, and noticed that they have their listings on the web.
Not only do they play new videos, but they also play old videos - old
Alison Krauss videos, and stuff like that.
And its like MTV has stopped dealing with music all together. Glen:
Yeah.
Country culture its still country music television.
MTV is a disposable youth culture magazine.
Its not about music; its about youth culture and brand names.
Its a whole different deal. I
mean almost to go backwards again thats why screaming a lot about the
industry and how they wont let any interesting good music through, and you
look at the economics of it as a reality for them now.
Ive spent a lot of time screaming about it, but you realize its
just not economically viable for them anymore.
It works for bands that ... theres a jam band scene, and
theres even bands that hate to be called jam bands but are close enough
that they fit in it, and if people want to find out about it,
therere zines
everywhere that are talking about it some even
have glossy magazines.
You can find out about them all over.
They use the web really well; theyre very tied in with the Internet.
A friend was talking to me about Leftover Salmon it might have been
String Cheese, whichever one is from Colorado they have 35 people working in
their office, and theyre a record company, a booking company, and a travel
agent they not only book the bands, but they book fan travel for people who
want to follow all over. Theyre
completely vertically integrated. Theyve
figured out how to do it. And
its within a genre, which helps. If
you look at small punk bands, and anywhere you go theres a punk band.
If youre on Fat Wreck Chords, anyone knows that a Fat Wreck Chord is a
Fat Wreck Chord its going to sound like a Fat band, its gonna be good.
Its going to get in a zine and theres a genre to talk about.
Where it gets very weird is for artists who used to be kind of mainstream
who no longer are. They don't have
a genre. So you take Aimee Mann,
whos doing well independently but also got her exposure through Magnolia.
She would not have had that without a major film, as much as people talk
about the Internet and her indie thing. Shes
been the critics' darling, but she got itI mean, this has nothing to do with her
music, but as far as reaching the market, she had all the songs in the film.
Thank God. Its why
Elliott Smith got heard, cause he had Good Will Hunting.
But you look at music like that, like Elliott, like her, Grant Lee
Phillips, Jon BrionOld 97s, which getsI guess Rhet Miller gets in the
same way that Ryan Adams does, with the Americana scene, the alt-country scene,
which have their own magazines. But
its this thing where you show up and people will see you even if theyve
never heard you because youre within the genre and youre respected.
Grant Lee Phillips, he was not at all alt-country, but hes been
attached to that scene because people dont know where else to put him.
Some of these artists me included what are we?
What is Aimee Mann, what is Michael Penn, what is Sam Phillips?
Were not folk, were not pop, nobodys coined a phrase for it,
which means that you gather it together and you can get the people who love this
kind of music to go see a show. Neil
Finn what the hell is Neil Finn aside from a god!?
Its odd theres that non-genre.
Were all out of the mainstream world, but nobodys coined a phrase
for it yet. Its something Ive
given a lot of thought to do we as a group of artists have any kind of
collective bargaining because the audience, I think, has trouble finding it.
There are people out there that are desperate for music from these people,
and unless theyre really actively, actively seeking them out, they dont
even know their albums exist. LOTD: Going back to the music one of the things I noticed about Abulum is that theres a lot more humor in some of your more recent songs. Were you wary of presenting these elements to the band, or is this just something new as you get older and find different perspectives on things?
Glen:
I think I
used to tell more stories in Toad stuff, and I got very navel-gazy bythe
lyrics on Coil are very, very self-referential.
Not very narrative. I dunno,
Ive just gotten back into storytelling a little more.
I like telling stories. I
also discovered Randy Newman, which is the biggest influence of any of it.
Hes a storyteller that manages to tackle very large issues, but he
doesnt tackle them, he just observes them.
I guess thats the thing. If
you try to tackle them, it usually doesnt work.
To take a story and just play with it and look at it with a sense of
humor, I enjoy doing that. Theres
not as much of it on the next album, though.
LOTD:
Well, Ill jump ahead to that: what are the plans
for recording and releasing stuff? Glen:
To do it
soon and to do it well. Theres a
ton of songs, Im writing more songs, making some decisions which are all
pending that are taking far, far longer than I ever thought possible.
There are songs like Easier, stuff Ive played live that hasnt
been on an album that deserves to be on an album someday. Theres a bunch of other songs that ended up on the Mutual
Admiration Society record that still hasnt come out but will be out in about
six months. There will be some that
the people who have sought it out and actually found the music will recognize
from live shows. LOTD: Could you talk a little about how you got hooked up with Nickel Creek?
It might seem weird to see someone whos been known for being in a rock
band to be playing with this young, semi-bluegrass sort of group.
Glen:
Well,
theyre acoustictheyre not bluegrass.
Theyre really omnivorous. There
was a guy from Santa Barbara at a folk festival who saw a Toad The Wet Sprocket
sticker on one of their cases, chatted them up, and Sean had written a song he
wanted me to sing, he got us in touch. They
came down to Largo and ended up sitting in on three-fourths of my set that night.
We would just get together now and then and play together, and have a
great time. Theyre pretty broad
in their tastes. They can
deconstruct Coltrane solos, they know every Elliott Smith song, every Ben Folds
song, they know every Irish traditional song (laughs).
Theyre classically, incredibly well trained.
Theyre real musicians. Most
people doing what we do myself included were experienced and capable
amateurs. Theres stuff that you develop, songwriting craft, but as
far as being musicians amateurs, purely (laughs).
Theyre incredible players. Sara
is the youngest in the band, plays the least, may even get the leastyou know,
yahoo-bigwell, thats not true. But
she has so much taste. She wont play a
note unless it belongs. As far as
being a mature musician goes, she has an ability to listen, an ability to be
appropriate that is uncanny. Sean
as well. Chris is brilliant;
theyre all brilliant in their own ways.
In some ways that are more immediately apparent than others. Playing with them over long periods of time, though, they
fill in such different areas of musicality theyre all very broad,
theyre all virtuosos and what they can add, Chris rhythmically does these
amazing things chordally, and these counter melodies that Sean does, hes
brilliant, and Sara just pure taste. Pure
unadulterated, impeccable, taste. Theyre
fantastic. LOTD:
Who
produced the Mutual Admiration record? Glen:
That was
Ethan Johns, again. LOTD:
Is
he doing your new one? Glen:
I dont
think so. Im going to do
something different. Ethans
really great at capturing an environment and capturing a performance.
Abulum was a record that was kind of deliberately non-commercial
almost belligerently non-commercial. Instead
of inviting you in, in any way, at all, its a record that requires you to
step in. I think, for me, it was a
fuck you. I was kind of
depressed and withdrawn. I felt like Id just been kicked out of
something. The recordI really
love it, but its challenging in a very plain way.
Theres lots of subtlety in it, but you have hunt it out, it doesnt
come looking for you. The record
with Nickel Creek is an entirely different atmosphere.
Its the most subdued party ever.
We had one day to learn the songs, we did the album in three days, just
the three of them, myself, Jen Condos on bass, Richard Causon on keyboards.
We just sat in my garage; everything was live, with everyone playing
together. Very loose, unrehearsed,
its a very softit reminds me a lot of Pale, the feeling of it.
SoI want to use the studio as a tool on its own more on the next
record, and Ethan is very much performance and reality oriented.
He wants to capture you as you were at that moment. The next album is going to be different.
LOTD:
Theres
talk of a live CD. Is that still
coming out? Glen:
I wasnt
blown away by the performances. We
may put some of it out, but Id rather it be really great than just alright.
LOTD: Now for the goofy questions do you have a couple records that are just
blowing your mind, that you love to listen to? Glen:
UmI pull
out The Revelator a lotGillian Welch(picks up his laptop to see what
hes ripped)Im bad at this. I
just bought Cake,
Comfort Eagle. Id never heard a lot of their records, and Im enjoying it. The lyrics are fun, and just cynical enough that it doesnt
bother me. Alison Krauss, Coldplay
I cant get enough of that David GarzaElbowFlaming LipsNelly
(laughs). Eminem was my guilty
pleasure. It was one of those
albums that I dont want to like just like Straight Out Of Compton. I
couldnt stand the fact that I liked Straight Out Of Compton.
I was like 'Im a little peaceful Birkenstock-short-wearing Southern
California Im not supposed to like this!'
But it was really good. LOTD:
Im
like that. If Im listening to
the Eminem album in my car, even if I have the windows up, Ill suddenly feel
really conspicuous, like people know Glen:
Theyre
going to judge you! (laughs). LOTD:
The
last question is the same thing, sort ofwhat are three of your all-time,
favorite records? Glen: Its hard to say. I dont know. It depends. Like, OK Computer you cant put on any old time, if the kids are around the house. I like short albums. I like albums that take you to one place and get done fast enough. Maybe Im conditioned for 30-45 minutes or something, but its a reasonable amount of time for a piece of music. I like to be able to swallow it and digest it as a whole. I like a record where, when it starts up again, if Im driving my car around, like the old Ry Cooder records, you want to hear it three times in a row. I really cant answer that (laughs).
Music by Glen Phillips is available at Insound, Amazon, CDNow, and CD Universe Glen Phillips' Official Website About LOTD Contact/Staff Advertise Home All content © LEFT OFF THE DIAL 2001-2005. All rights reserved. |
